03.19
So the T8 gear for all classes has been revealed thanks to the diligence of the awesome folks over at MMO-Champion. Check out what we’ll be getting my rogue brethern and sisteren:
Go ahead – click the link. Marvel. Wipe the drool from your chin and come back, I’ll wait.
Soaked it all in? Excited? Squirming a bit in your seat? Maybe a lot? Well settle down spaz, I’m pretty excited too so let’s talk about this.
The first thing you might notice is, no ugly blue sockets. Hurray! Blue is a terrible socket color for rogues and, more often than not, a socket bonus is just ignored for the sake of a superior gem color choice. Granted, yes, we are still going to have to have one bluish gem in our gear to meet that meta requirement, but I can still be happy about this nonetheless.
Now let’s talk about the set bonuses.
(2) Your Deadly Poison causes you to gain 1 energy every time it does damage
This, to me, is another giant swing to crush the IIV Mutilate setup (IIV being Instant poison on the Main Hand, Instant poison on the Off hand and Eviscerate as a finisher) with the added “benefit” of making Combat rogues step away from Wound/Wound. But how good is this set bonus really?
Assuming deadly poison is up all the time (which for the ease of math it basically is), you’re looking at regening 1 energy every 3 seconds. Assassination Rogues regen about 12 energy per second and Combat rogues around 15 (do to Vitality) so we’re looking at about 2.2% energy increase for Combat and abount 2.7% energy increase for Assassination which in turn would increase Yellow damage (damage from special attacks) by said percentages. Not too shabby.
(4) – The damage dealt by your Rupture can now be critical strikes
Whoa. Stop the presses. I had to read that several times before it really sunk in. Rupture is a decent chunk of our damage (about 8%) and if rupture can now crit for x2 damage like other specials (assumed) at our crit rate (easily reaching 50% in a raid setting, easily more in new gear) this quickly falls into “way too powerful for a set bonus” range. This seems far more like a talent to me. Granted, the wording is a bit ambiguous and by “can be critical strikes” they mean that Rupture has a static chance to crit that isn’t based off your own crit rating. If that’s the case, then things seem a bit more balanced otherwise, we’ll probably be seeing rogues killing Arthas in their T8.
New video tomorrow, happy stabbings!
“(2) Your Deadly Poison causes you to gain 1 energy every time it does damage”
1 energy every 3 seconds is a total of 20 energy a minute. Wooooaaah hold the front page that’s a whole Mutilate every 2.5 minutes!!! Pah!
Would be nice if it were per stack every time it does damage but cannot see that happening
“if rupture can now crit for x2 damage like other specials (assumed) at our crit rate (easily reaching 50% in a raid setting, easily more in new gear) this quickly falls into “way too powerful for a set bonus” range”
Hell, I don’t care! It’s about time we had a nice buff to our PvE DPS. Unfortunately, yes, you’re probably right… with rupture glyphed as well would be silly damage!
We can dream though… Can’t we?
“Rupture is a decent chunk of our damage (about 8%) and if rupture can now crit for x2 damage like other specials (assumed) at our crit rate (easily reaching 50% in a raid setting, easily more in new gear) this quickly falls into “way too powerful for a set bonus” range”
Actually… thinking about it with Cold Blood this would also mean every 3 minutes you would be guaranteed a huge rupture too which would bring our DPS up a bit for boss fights no?
Actually, due to the way coldblood works, (raising your chance on the next ability user to crit to 100%) I don’t expect it to interact with rupture due to Rupture damage being a DOT.
Unless, now that I think about it, you mean that you activate coldblood, then rupture and every rupture tick is then a crit. Boy would that be crazy
. Most certainly not in the cards though, but like you said, we can dream.
Nice set bonuses, but it’s also very nice that they finally made all sockets useable. Just gonna need to use one purple gem for the meta I guess, but other than that – useful gems everywhere !
Also, from a design point of view, the red set seems to bring out the helm graphic the most, and ‘Terrorblade’ is again a nice name for a set I guess.
And I think it will just be certain ticks of rupture critting. Which is still not a bad thing of course.
In my opinion, the t7 bonuses were way better, the reduction in energy cosy seems to be far better than the dp energy gains, especially if it’s not 1 energy per stack, and I don’t think it means the entire rupture can be a crit, just each tick, which doesnt seem as good
Also, the t8 helmet makes you look like a mutant, are they seroius with that thing?
Mutant? Nay! It makes you look like you skinned Dobby the House-Elf!
I’ll be turning that graphic off, but I love the rest of the set.
Yo Yo, I hate to pull us a lil off topic (i love the new set bonus’s btw)but have a question….comment….
Right now I’m here.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Firetree&n=Paramourn
and rockin 2 226 pieces along with the 2 piece set bonus in 7.5 (rupture +10%) After carefully reviewing our WWS for OS + 3d (here http://wowwebstats.com/kl3tprcsjiqes)
I have come to the conclusion….once I get the frost adroid gloves….It will be official.. Comparing 3 226 pieces to the 4 set bonus and it’s gear, IMHO the 4 piece bonus is utterly worthless…..garbage. haha ok not that bad but it’s not beneficial. Calculating it only proccing on shiv’s and mutilates. I would get an extra 7.5 mutilates and “less than one hand” shivs….Lets take that damage (by averages) and say it’s 70k. Lets double it for shits and giggles….that’s an extra 140k damage which when I’m doing 7.5 million + just a drop in the bucket. Anybody agree….anyone think I’m an idiot? Pwease discuss =))) I have been ripped completely apart on the Wow forums for even fathoming that the 4 set bonus we have now isn’t utterly amazing. I think it’s all hype and jelousy. You guys are WAY cooler than the 9 year olds on the OFFICIAL forums so I value your opinion.
Paramourn, you’re vastly undervaluing the 4T7 bonus there. The thing you have to keep in mind is that it’s not just the extra 7 mutilates over time you’re gaining, but also the fact that the lower Energy cost on each mutilate allows you to get your next action off sooner /every single cycle/.
What does that mean? It means higher rupture uptime, more actions performed during the duration of buffs like Trinket procs, and Overkill, more Mutilates during the Envenom buff for more poison procs (Did you remember to factor in the damage of the Instant Poison procs from those 7 free mutilates in your calculation of lost damage?), etc. etc. etc.
It’s not just the extra actions that energy lets you perform, but the acceleration of your cycles over time.
After all, could you consieve of dropping Improved Sinister Strike from your Combat build?
Why was Hemo so viable in TBC in 11/27/23 trispecs, even if it did less damage than a Sinister Strike, and the build wasted 15-20 points on Sub filler? Because it cost 5 less energy.
The vast majority of PVE Rogues /vastly/ underrate the value of small fluctuations of energy, but there’s a reason that they’re such a big deal, and there’s a reason the 2 pc tier 8 bonus, while not as good as 4T7 in and of itself, is still very strong.
Feist, I understand your enthusiasm but it’s just not viable. The fact that you don’t just get 7 more mutilates is why in my estimate on damage output from this I DOUBLED it to 140k, which again is a drop in the bucket. And to be quite honest. That’s impossible. There is no way you would double your damage from the chain reaction off of 2.5 energy every mutilate. That’s all this is too. 2.5 energy off mutilates. Doesn’t work for envenom. Doesn’t work for FoK, doesn’t work for anything except mut’s and shiv’s (which you hardly ever use shiv unless your in a bind.) If you look at my spec and my gear. Energy is never a problem. The uptimes on bosses etc. are never a problem. Keeping this in mind when I’m hitting a boss, a mob etc. I am easily able to stack everything (hfb, snd, rupture) in just under 3 seconds with energy to spare. From that point on my stacks never fall off. So whether a mob/boss dies with 25 seconds on SnD or 30 seconds, my rupture is on it’s 4 tick or it’s 3 tick. It still dies. Leaving the only real change my mutilates. This video explains my rotation etc. and may give you a better insight into why stacks and rotations aren’t a problem and would receive minimal gain other than the mutilate costs themselves..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuoeMP57Tno
Also: since I made that I actually now have all 5 pieces of val. I sat on the dummies and pounded away this weekend, did heroics etc. and clear as night and day. Lower dps. Noticeably lower. I imagine if you feel the way you do it’s because of either 2 reasons.
A) You have the val pieces but don’t have 226 gear so you have nothing to compare it to and are almost prone to “hope/strive” to defend the set bonus because then your head is settled in thinking “I’m totally geared off”
B) You have read somewhere (I would hope) a very technical breakdown of how this beats the 226 gear.
In either case I would like to see some numbers and theorycrafting as to how this is plausible, or if you have just heard people rag on the 226 gear in a jealous, insecure way. Wait till you get those 3 pieces and you’ll probably feel the same. =)
In no way shape or form am I trying to be disrespectful. Just civilly disagreeing, bud =D I have personally tried the set bonus and feel in my situation it doesn’t work. Maybe you can prove me wrong!! Either way we both learn a little more about our class and become better! Thank you for replying to me, man, look forward to hearing from you.
Para
I have 2/3 226 pieces. I’ve passed the Sarth legs in the past, but am looking to pick them up the next time they drop. There are several very detailed breakdowns of exactly why the 4 set bonus is better over At Elitistjerks.com, and the existing Spreadsheet models, which are /very/ detailed, and quite accurate, consistently agree that the 4 set is better.
Keep in mind that 140,000 damage isn’t a drop in the bucket.
Your Sarth parse is 8:30 seconds. That’s 510 seconds. 140,000 damage over 510 seconds is 275 DPS.
Let’s use your ‘conservative’ 70,000 dmg number. It’s still 138 DPS.
Is 138 DPS an insignificant drop in the bucket? Looks to me like it’s a 3/5% overall increase in your total damage output. Hardly trivial at all. And again, that’s not even accounting for secondary factors such as the hastening of cycles, additional poison procs, or overall cycle stability.
Oh, and just for good measure, the 4 set bonus happens to affect Fan of Knives as well, so you can probably add another half a free mutilate in over the fight duration on that 3D parse of yours, not to mention it’s pretty amazing in how it interacts with Overkill and Focused Attacks and Cold Blood for burst AoE. Pooling to 80+ energy, than vanish->fok->coldblood->fok until OOE produces a TON of damage in a very short time – just tricks a tank first!
Feist’s last blog post..FeistTheRogue: @mattycus You should try infusing some vodka. It’s tasty like you wouldn’t believe.
Hey bud how’s it going! I just wanted to drop in and let you know what’s going on…I ran through quite a bit of info and am going to flip all my gear tonight for naxx, hopefully I’m deathly wrong
Just seems to be in our kneck of the woods it wasn’t overtaking the 226 set up, but your right, elitist jerks does support this for the most part. Just curious though in reference to the FoK comment. It isn’t a combo move…thus not effecting the repeated FoK spams….and I know exactly what your talking about, man. I’m probably going to make a vid soon about proper FoK rotations in raids etc. with arcane torrent, thistle tea, cold blood etc. In naxx a couple weeks back I hit 27k + dps in the spider wing lol. If you look at my WWS, you can see. That is my FAVORITE ability right now. =)))) FOK is rediculously sick. Anycase, thanks man you were among the straws that broke this camel’s back..I will retry it with a lil better gear and see how damage output changes with the 4 set. Think we’ll both agree on the Tier 8 sets =)))))
PS. Again, I hope I’m wrong but how would FoK be effected with the set bonus?! It’s not considered a combo move. and with you doing that single ability over and over it shouldn’t effect anything at all. please explain =)
Whether bugged or intended, when wearing 4 pc t7, my Fan of Knives costs 47 energy. Says so on the tooltip, and behaves accordingly in game.
jesus christ. That’s all I have to say….so ya Feist you were totally right….I will never go back.
http://wowwebstats.com/qg4kzvj3ms44a?s=569937-612498
just a few hundred shy of 10k on thad
Thank you my friend…..I stand utterly/completely corrected.
So multiple stacks probably won’t proc more energy regen on DP.
Now what about multiple mobs? FoK with DP, on 50 mobs (just for the sake of the point), if 50 mobs’ DP ticked, is that going to be 50 energy? I would love that. >.>
Not sure if that is OP or not, taking into consideration DP procs, and the number of mobs you can acutally AOE. And besides Ulduar is supposed to be non aoe driven, so does it even matter?
Otherwise, it’s really just a “1 extra energy point every 3 seconds…. oh that only works if you have DP, so use DP, because we want you too…..”
Yes, very awesome questions….I really am not sure….it would be a lil op’ed with fan of knives….any new word on this? What are your opinions?
Multiple stacks will not proc more energy.
It is assumed that multiple mobs with DP on them (via FoK most likely) will proc more energy (this has not been tested and can’t be confirmed until someone actually gets the set but it seems likely).
This is going to be pretty nice, especially since many of the bosses in Ulduar appear to have phases involving multiple adds. Granted we won’t be seeing 50 mobs for 50 energy a tick but I could see 3 or 4 and even that will be amazing
.
I now have 2 t8 pieces and it INDEED procs off multiple targets
http://wowwebstats.com/mzh11a4shuaxs?bl=0&filter=spell%3D%22Energized%22
Look at my WWS.
BUT I’m now trying to decide on single target if it’s worth dropping both set bonuses from T7.5 My stats are pretty much the same with both tier sets. the 5% reduction to energy cost on combo points is less than the t8 bonus but I’m just curious if rupture is a big enough deal to keep a 2 set bonus in…..Not sure.